Topic: .hack//Sign in depth

[noirlax]

Subaru is probably the most interesting case, if noirlax has the time/inclination it would be nice if he could develop that analysis somewhat ^^ For me she doesn't quite fit the stereotype of the disabled gamer, who in my experience tend to be highly mechanical and not as social in their approach to gaming. At least in English society, having a disability rarely if ever forces people to seek virtual friendships, but it can spur them to make powerful characters. But perhaps a Japanese or north Asian attitude to disabilities, or to gaming, is a difference-maker here.

A little online probing shows disabled people are social outcasts in Japan even though its probably better than other parts of Asia with certain preconceptions (some even say its the result of their bad karma - remember Glenn Hoddle kavi?). Anyhow that makes it difficult for Subaru to make friends than in the West.

I think regardless of social constructs, Subaru by not being strong (actually very weak for her level of time in the game) is giving herself a 'disability' in the game even though being able to move in the game is far better. But you might argue like in the real world her strength is a mental one and she plays The World as an extension of her mental strength. But her mental strength in the real world doesn't seem to manifest itself into helping others as much.  In this context, you can argue her escapism is not to escape her lack of movement from her physical disability rather the inability to reach and help others due to her physical disability.

[kavi]

That's fascinating, noirlax. I like the idea of Subaru as someone who craves respect and responsibility (which she has ingame). It explains a lot about the way she behaves I think.

[noirlax]

I thought this might be interesting.

(17:34:35) The_White_Wolf: I haven't seen CCS so its hard to say how this compares, but I think Bee Train was the right group to make Tsubasa.
(17:34:46) The_White_Wolf: The story just feels Bee Trainy.
(17:36:02) noirlax: why do you say that?
(17:36:58) noirlax: I don't know if Tsubasa was Bee Trainy but I feel Bee Train is the best bunch to curb CLAMP's excesses.
(17:38:19) The_White_Wolf: Clamp's anime - at least what I have seen - feels more feminine.
(17:38:32) The_White_Wolf: This is a more masculine story.
(17:39:02) The_White_Wolf: But thats not why.
(17:39:16) The_White_Wolf: Its more dramatic and serious than a lot of clamp anime I have seen.
(17:39:21) noirlax: oh
(17:39:33) noirlax: and that's why?
(17:40:45) The_White_Wolf: Actually thats a poor way of saying it.
(17:40:50) The_White_Wolf: Clamp doesn't lack drama.
(17:41:08) The_White_Wolf: This story just has a different feel than their usual fare.
(17:42:27) noirlax: which is more light hearted?
(17:47:30) The_White_Wolf: Yes
(17:48:03) The_White_Wolf: It also has sort of the same feel .hack did.
(17:49:40) noirlax: lost memories or going from world to world?
(17:50:15) The_White_Wolf: No and I cant explain it more than that. It's just a feeling.
(17:52:37) noirlax: I can sort of feel it, in terms of setting and characterization.
(17:52:50) noirlax: However I feel Sign is a more mature and complex show.
(17:54:10) The_White_Wolf: It places more empasis on politics
(17:54:38) noirlax: Sign?
(17:54:50) The_White_Wolf: Yes
(17:55:07) The_White_Wolf: I dont mean the legislative kind I mean interpersonal dealings.
(17:55:38) noirlax: I call it relationships rather than politics personally
(17:55:47) noirlax: but yeah there's that
(17:56:25) noirlax: and the complex relationship the characters have with their virtual and real selves
(17:56:38) The_White_Wolf: Well things like the group of knights that act as a sort of police force, and their relationship with the corporation that owned the world.
(17:57:06) The_White_Wolf: As well as the dealings between BT and Sora.
(17:57:19) The_White_Wolf: Thats more politics and negitiation to me.
(17:59:03) noirlax: That's true, but I felt Sign was more about the personal relationships between Bear, Subaru, Tsukasa, Mimiru, BT.
(17:59:53) noirlax: To me the knights were more a foil to Subaru's feelings.
(18:00:23) The_White_Wolf: It was relationships, but they were more adult relationships.
(18:01:26) The_White_Wolf: And it wasn't always personal.
(18:01:40) The_White_Wolf: In MMO what you can accomplish with other players is very much plotics
(18:02:05) noirlax: There's truth in that
(18:02:29) noirlax: I don't disagree there is politics, hidden agendas in Sign.
(18:03:17) noirlax: My point of view is that there is a greater emphasis on personal relationships.
(18:03:54) noirlax: We see how players team up in Sign for information or to complete quests.
(18:04:24) noirlax: I think politics is primarily Sora, BT, Bear and Subaru
(18:04:44) noirlax: I don't think Tsukasa and Mimiru really get involved
(18:04:44) The_White_Wolf: And Crim
(18:04:54) noirlax: Crim too
(18:05:24) noirlax: But they have personal relationships and politics in varying degrees
(18:07:11) noirlax: I think Subaru was an administrator at first but as her feelings grew she understood the game for its relationships than for its order/service.
(18:07:22) The_White_Wolf: I think the end is brought about by forging an alliance of people with conflicting goals.
(18:07:35) noirlax: I do feel Tsubasa doesn't get too complicated with matters like that.
(18:07:53) noirlax: Well with conflicting motivations.
(18:08:05) noirlax: They all want Tsukasa to get out.

[AlexShadow]

Sorry I missed this convo, chat wasn't behaving for me this time (odd it usually does) so I said F*** it I'm going to bed :V

[Mireille]

I started re-watching Tsubasa season 1 which is what spawned the discussion.

[Mireille]

Finished a Sign re-watch, and started on Liminality.

By the end of Sign it made me feel like it's a sci-fi in a similar vein to Asimov's 'Foundation.' It relies on conversation and plot to build suspense as opposed to relying on action. It's really quite cerebral, and of course it's an example of how Bee Train really loves sentimentality.

Not sure how I feel about BT either. Some things about her evoke sympathy, but at the same time she transfers her bitterness to others and that's not so cool.

Still detest Sora.

As far as Liminality, at the end of Episode 1 all I can say is Mai shows that she is totally out of Masaya's league.