[ShadowBlazer3000] go
[BiitoreinGoji] go
[Mireille] go
[Noirlax] Go~! 🔥🔫:kirika:
[Kugayama] Go
[JP Yuri] Go
[forlornhope] Go
[MartAnimE] Go~! :kirika:
[Noirlax] Like those silohuette fights
[Kugayama] How does one describe the realisation that Arika of Ali Project is really like you see in her videos?
[ShadowBlazer3000] previously on Kirika the Soldat Slayer
[Noirlax] There's the piano melodie 🙂
[MartAnimE] omg why 😭
[Noirlax] Just withered and died
[Mireille] Because you love her dummy.
[Noirlax] That landscape is nice too
[MartAnimE] you are so right Mireille 😄
[BiitoreinGoji] Kirika Alone
[Kugayama] Pyrenees
[Noirlax] cute Kirika mode
[ShadowBlazer3000] i half expected Isolde
[Mireille] A Black Cherry Martini to celebrate Les Deux Vierges .
[MartAnimE] Isolde?
[Noirlax] nice outfit
[MartAnimE] dog! 🐶
[Noirlax] lol
[Mireille] Dog is seriously wondering if this is edible. XD
[ShadowBlazer3000]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_and_Iseult[Noirlax] I expected that
[Kugayama] Black Cherry from hack//SIGN?
[MartAnimE] I often wonder...
[Mireille] It's a vaguely ecchi reference to the Otome of Noir.
[MartAnimE] what was that dog's name?
[ShadowBlazer3000] Fido
[MartAnimE] lol
[Mireille] lol
[BiitoreinGoji] That bell's out of sync
[MartAnimE] really 😄
[ShadowBlazer3000] sure why not
[Noirlax] The Noir altar
[Kugayama] Fideaux? (-:
[MartAnimE] maybe his name was Soldat
[ShadowBlazer3000] yeah that makes it sound more French
[MartAnimE] aww Kirika 😭
[Mireille] This scene with the little girl is one of the reasons I think Mireille has to have been in the room when Kirika killed her mothter.
[Noirlax] Of course you did because you're Noir.
[MartAnimE] explain
[Mireille] Otherwise how would Kirika mistake the little girl for young Mireille while lost in her thoughts about the past.
[MartAnimE] aww yeah you're right 😮
[Mireille] She has to have seen Mireille as a child.
[ShadowBlazer3000] i thought the two girls saw each other
[MartAnimE] she must have seen young Mireille
[Noirlax] friendly village
[Mireille] Kirika is an amnesiac, but Mirelle is also described has having fragmented memories of her past in some of the accompanying material.
[Mireille] So Mireille doesn't remember all of it either.
[BiitoreinGoji] Well polite society's tend to be armed.
[ShadowBlazer3000] that's a lotta guns
[MartAnimE] well they're friendly towards Kirika 😅
[Noirlax] lol
[Mireille] She could easily have seen her mom die and blacked it out of her mind.
[Noirlax] I was being sarcastic
[MartAnimE] I know XD
[Mireille] An armed society is a polite society.
[MartAnimE] you think?
[ShadowBlazer3000] tell that to Mogadishu
[Noirlax] lol
[Mireille] And all my guns put together have killed one less person than Ted Kennedy's car. 😛
[BiitoreinGoji] Soldats: Civil War
[Noirlax] I watch that Goji
[ShadowBlazer3000] followed by Soldats: Infnity War
[Noirlax] O_O
[BiitoreinGoji] Catalonia?
[MartAnimE] lol I think owning guns when you live alone is fine, when you live with other living things it becomes a hazard
[Noirlax] These drawings are interesting
[Kugayama] Yes
[MartAnimE] yeah very medieval
[Noirlax] They do look like medieval french books I've seen
[MartAnimE] Les Soldats are very old
[Noirlax] Oui
[Noirlax] The true nature of this world
[MartAnimE] do you think Les Soldats are real?
[Noirlax] Kinda 😄
[MartAnimE] and they're European based?
[Kugayama] Why not "nuke them from orbit"?
[Mireille] And these guys were dumb enough to bring an army to a Kirikafight. -.-;
[BiitoreinGoji] Madlax if animated in 2001
[Noirlax] Similar to the Soldats sure
[MartAnimE] there's no weapon you can bring to a kirikafight to win 😅
[MartAnimE] maybe cats 🐱
[Mireille] One of the cooler Kirika-kills coming up.
[MartAnimE] I feel like Kirika here, to be honest
[ShadowBlazer3000] Eat lead, slackers!
[Mireille] Scenes like this are probably why Marta loves killing so much.
[MartAnimE] I have trouble understanding
[MartAnimE] lol
[Noirlax] oh no the doll
[Kugayama] And the church
[MartAnimE] I think if they had killed the dog I would have loved killing 😄
[Noirlax] 😮
[BiitoreinGoji] O_O Dark Kirika
[MartAnimE] but I just feel sad right now 😢
[Mireille] I think if they killed the dog in this scene you wouldn't like the anime.
[Noirlax] but the dog survived Marta
[MartAnimE] ah maybe
[MartAnimE] you guys are right
[Mireille] I may not be a dog person, but fear that they might kill the dog is why I dropped Efein Leid.
[Noirlax] A million ppl died - Marta feels fine. A dog dies - Marta goes Dark
[MartAnimE] lol
[Mireille] I mean the cute dog.
[MartAnimE] true
[forlornhope] Kirika is coming for you 😠
[Mireille] Yeah I can watch films where a lot of people die, but if they hurt the cats and dogs I hate it.
[BiitoreinGoji] RIP Grandpa Sniper
[Mireille] I don't even like westerns where they put the horse down.
[Kugayama] The ED always reminds me of Gotsu in Shimane Prefecture
[MartAnimE] I think Kirika is portrayed as a cat person, but my headcanon is she loves both cats and dogs
[MartAnimE] and she would be unable to kill either of them
[MartAnimE] because they're innocent
[Mireille] There is one really good John Wayne western where he rides a horse to death to save a girl, and while I get the point they were making it still bugs me.
[MartAnimE] aww 😦
[Noirlax] I can detach myself enough I know its fiction but yeah it doesn't give a good feeling.
[Mireille] I'm not sure animals are innocent per se, but they are closer to their instincts in a way that makes their actions not malicious.
[ShadowBlazer3000] oh hey this episode was by future Princess Principal director
[forlornhope] Cool
[Noirlax] cool
[MartAnimE] oh nice
[Mireille] I mean if a mountain lion is hunting you it's just following it's core programming to survive.
[Mireille] There is no point to hating it.
[Noirlax] Animals don't have conscious malice in them like humans?
[MartAnimE] awww just realized the rewatch is over
[MartAnimE] yeah Riki I think so
[Noirlax] well it's not over if we keep talking
[Noirlax] 😄
[MartAnimE] lol ok
[MartAnimE] let's keep talking 😄
[JP Yuri] lol
[forlornhope] You keep talking. I need to go to bed 😪
[forlornhope] Night all 🐶
[MartAnimE] that's fair
[BiitoreinGoji] @forlornhope nighty night
[Noirlax] Np Brooke, thanks for staying up
[Kugayama] I need the final sub of this episode's preview
[Noirlax] bai bai 🐶
[MartAnimE] Bai Bai 🐶
[MartAnimE] ***
[Noirlax] ***
[Noirlax] I like how the episode ends, it contrasts with Kirika at the start
[Noirlax] It's like a metaphor
[Noirlax] now I think about it
[Kugayama] Sentiments for the remaining flower
[MartAnimE] I was thinking yeah, animals are kinder cuz they only kill out of instinct
[Mireille] I dont think animals have malice, but they also don't have the higher brain functions associated with a moral center.
[Mireille] So a cat may play with a mouse, and that's kind of cruel, but the cat doesn't do it for the sake of cruelty.
[Noirlax] Sentiments for the remaining flower 🥀
[Mireille] Humans who torment something dereive pleasure from cruelty.
[Mireille] That's a characteristic almost exclusive to man.
[Noirlax] Almost
[Mireille] Weasels kill for pleasure, so it's not 100% exclusive to man, but it's close.
[Noirlax] What weasels
[BiitoreinGoji] @Mireille Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGRZ0rc9r1M[Mireille]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel[Noirlax] They are cute
[Mireille] They're beautiful animals and very smart, but if you drop a weasel in a case with 100 mice it will kill all of them and eat 1 of them.
[Noirlax] awww
[Mireille] It kills for the sake of killing and not for food, and that makes them more like man.
[MartAnimE] ah yeah I see what you mean
[Mireille] Although I suspect Kari would kill Doon for the sake of killing, but Kari isn't evil. 😮
[BiitoreinGoji] There are actual minks bred to exterminate rats
[Noirlax] Doon isn't killable nor is Elenore 😄
[JP Yuri] Look what I saw on the big TV in the lobby today!
[JP Yuri]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTcAKVOlSlc[Mireille] Doon dies a bed of flowers.
[MartAnimE] I think whenever Logan has killed, he must have felt like he wasn't doing it just for food but also to provide for his loved ones
[Mireille] Kari would pee on the flowers. 😛
[Noirlax] that's less extreme than I expected XD
[JP Yuri] lololol
[Noirlax] I expected stink flowers and a flamethrower
[BiitoreinGoji] Is Kari ElenoreFanGirl?
[MartAnimE] cuz sometimes he left an intact corpse and other times he had eaten his prey
[Mireille] Yes.
[Kugayama] on a peony? (-:
[JP Yuri] Quint likes to catch mice and let them go, to catch them again
[Mireille] Elenorefangirl is Elenore.
[Noirlax] Yeah that's for you Marta
[Noirlax] The prey
[MartAnimE] I appreciate it really, but not gonna eat it 😅
[Kugayama] the stoats, weasels and ferrets were the bad ones in The Wind In The Willows
[Mireille] Yes they were.
[Noirlax] Just to add I think some animals might kill for pleasure but humans can kill for a variety of emotions/ideas that animals are not capable of.
[MartAnimE] yes Riki
[Mireille] Odd bit of trivia, but Pink Floyd's first album Piper at the Gates of Dawn is named for a chapter in the Wind and the Willows.
[MartAnimE] oh cool
[Kugayama] Piper at the gates of dawn was covered in the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra's Pink Floyd tribute concerts
[Noirlax] Profit/jealousy/hate/ideology/power etc.
[MartAnimE] I think animals feel jealousy a lot
[MartAnimE] but not the other things as much
[Mireille] Song off that album.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk7fezaruTk[Kugayama] and I sent a copy of the CD of Adelaide Symphony Orchestra Pink Floyd tribute to Koichi Korenaga
[Noirlax] No animal is going to kill you for money, a banana maybe though 😄
[Kugayama] 🍌 republic
[Mireille] Syd Barret was probably the primary influence in this song.
[Kugayama] Might go for a 🚶♂️ in 15 minutes
[Noirlax] Can't get the real Noir, so train an ape version of it for peanuts.
[Kugayama] dark chocolate with peanuts
[MartAnimE] I mean like, they definitely feel jealousy, especially dogs, sometimes I'm being affectionate towards Logan or even Kapenguin, and Mio literally gets in the way
[Noirlax] aww lol
[MartAnimE] lol yes dogs are very clingy
[MartAnimE] but I love them like that
[Noirlax] Ape Noir -
http://www.beetrainfan.org/forum/index.php/topic,744.msg72538.html#msg72538[MartAnimE] because I guess I too am very clingy 😅
[Noirlax] 😅 :chloe:
[ShadowBlazer3000]
https://imgur.com/w7IFT6E[BiitoreinGoji]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLwpPYS3MFA[Kugayama] a Glad wrapper? (-:
[MartAnimE] lol wut?
[Noirlax] whoa that was dangerous @BiitoreinGoji
[JP Yuri] lol Kuga
[JP Yuri] Glad wrap is clingy, too
[Noirlax] lol yeah
[Mireille] Animals have all the same feelings we do, but I think their actions are closer to those feelings than ours.
[MartAnimE] I mean I'm clingy as in, I get attached to people, and then it's hard to not be
[Noirlax] Humans with their bigger brains can lie, deny and cheat better
[Noirlax] their feelings
[BiitoreinGoji] Goes to show that animals like gorillas are intelligent.
[BiitoreinGoji] Just don't make them angry
[Noirlax] They aren't dumb
[Noirlax] Those two episodes we went through a lot, noticed the dub seems to make things slightly more obvious than the sub I think.
[MartAnimE] How so?
[Mireille] Never seen the dud,
[Mireille] er I mean dub,
[Mireille] no pun intended.
[Noirlax] Like the emotions seem a little more pronounced. I think there's a tiny bit more somewhere going to check
[ShadowBlazer3000] oh so more in the acting than in the script itself
[MartAnimE] hmm maybe
[Noirlax] maybe
[Noirlax] but it's just my interpretation of the voice acting
[MartAnimE] I feel like when it's a foreign language you don't dominate it's a lot easier to project and assume things
[Noirlax] maybe Marta
[MartAnimE] so even if I like the Japanese version more I try to keep that in mind
[Mireille] These episodes showed us Kirika's truth, but they also show us a hint of Mireille's truth.
[Noirlax] I probably made an assumption Japanese culture is more understated and that's going to be reflected in the sub.
[Kugayama] the anime I first watched tended to have good dubs (e.g. the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya), I'd sometimes re-watch with subs
[Mireille] Kirika's truth is the chain binding her to the past, but we start to get a glimpse that Mireille's real truth is Kirika
[Mireille] Mireille has every reason to kill her, but she can't.
[Noirlax] Ah no it's the same meaning in the sub and dub that part it's just my mind.
[Mireille] And it's not that she shies away from killing.
[Noirlax] Mireille's truth is still to be revealed next time
[Noirlax] Kirika's truth (without Mireille) is dark
[Mireille] Yeah, but we see the cracks in Mireille's facade in the graveyard.
[Mireille] Why couldn't I kill her?
[Mireille] And sorry can't comment on the dub, so I'm just giving my thoughts on what I can comment on. Don't let that stop your own conversation.
[MartAnimE] Mireille's breakthrough is tougher
[Noirlax] because Mireille is a more stubborn lady 😄
[ShadowBlazer3000] I've got to go to bed now so good night
[Noirlax] Good night Alex
[Noirlax] bai bai 🐶
[Noirlax] ***
[MartAnimE] aww Bai Bai Alex 🐶
[Kugayama] Ultimate Noir
[Kugayama]
https://imgur.com/TzLMG4K[MartAnimE] ***
[JP Yuri] Good night Alex
[Noirlax] I like that graveyard scene, I'm not sure why but I like how they paint the backgrounds for it
[JP Yuri] Is that as high as it can go?
[Noirlax] It's atmospheric
[Noirlax] You can go 100% 😮
[Kugayama] I think so
[MartAnimE] I was gonna say, Mireille's breakthrough is tougher
[MartAnimE] because forgiveness is hard
[MartAnimE] and she does forgive Kirika
[Mireille] Mireille is more stubborn, but she's also got more reason.
[Mireille] She was a victim of the plot, so she has reason for anger.
[Mireille] That makes what she does at the end more profound imo.
[MartAnimE] Kirika's breakthrough is just a confirmation of her worst fears, she is not scared of death, she welcomes it
[MartAnimE] I mean, I highly respect both character's struggles, but they're very different
[Noirlax] I think this is Kirika's realization rather than breakthrough personally
[MartAnimE] I think that's the same thing
[Mireille] I think that's a key difference between K&M and Chloe. Chloe can't overcome her past and the chains that bind her to it.
[Noirlax] Breakthrough makes me think she overcame something but I don't feel she has yet in a way.
[Mireille] But I also think Chloe is more defined by choice than Kirika and Mireille.
[MartAnimE] Ah okay gotcha Riki
[Mireille] She wants Noir, where K & M have Noir thrust upon them by force.
[Mireille] And force over choice is Altena's truth.
[Mireille] Which is part of why I think she wants M & K as Noir.
[Mireille] They don't have a choice and either did she.
[Noirlax] destiny over choice
[MartAnimE] yeah that's plausible
[Mireille] More like the choice of someone with more power over her own choice.
[Mireille] And that experience defines her.
[MartAnimE] Anyways, sorry, I'm exhausted and need sleep 😴
[Mireille] Her Noir has to embody that pain in order to carry out her revenge.
[MartAnimE] you all keep going
[Mireille] Night Marta.
[MartAnimE] Bai Bai 🐶
[Noirlax] Night Marta bai bai 🐶
[Noirlax] ***
[MartAnimE] ***
[JP Yuri] Night Marta
[JP Yuri] ***
[Kugayama] has Chloe yet shown any discomfort with her own situation?
[Noirlax] Not really so far
[Noirlax] you'll see more in the next rewatch
[Kugayama] OK
[Mireille] Chloe is pretty much shown to embrace her situation.
[Mireille] Up until the end.
[Mireille] Chloe is on the one hand simple in her motivations, but she still manages to be a complex character.
[Noirlax] Chloe is also a fan favourite for some
[Noirlax] not me but yeah she has her complexities
[Mireille] Nothing wrong with liking Chloe. I mostly take issue to people rewriting Chloe to fit their own imagination.
[Mireille] If you have to pretend Chloe isn't Chloe, then you aren't a fan of Chloe.
[Noirlax] If you have to pretend Noir isn't Noir, then you aren't a fan of Noir. Looking at you Starz!
[JP Yuri] Lol
[Noirlax] Yeah some people don't want to interpret Chloe's actions that way.
[JP Yuri] Do people rewrite Chloe?
[JP Yuri] How?
[Noirlax] Depends who you ask 😄
[Noirlax] Everyone's headcanon is a bit different
[Noirlax] It's not as obvious rewriting as Doon 😄
[JP Yuri] Lol
[Mireille] Yes, people have tried to re-write Chloe & Altena
[Mireille] into a sort of unsung hero.
[JP Yuri] Oh?
[JP Yuri] In what ways?
[Mireille] Presenting them as the hero's of the story as opposed to the villains.
[JP Yuri] Oh
[Mireille] Trying to make their motivations out as selfless as opposed to selfish.
[Mireille] I'm fine with people being fans of villain characters; a good villain is fantastic and the actor deserves accolades.
[Mireille] But pretending they aren't the villain is just wrong.
[Mireille] It robs the character of the thing that makes them great.
[JP Yuri] Chloe's creepiness?
[Noirlax] Personally I don't see Chloe/Altena as unsung heroes but for me the real bad guys are the other Soldats with their red wine sitting at the fireplace 😄
[JP Yuri] to be fair, I am :chloe: and :altena:
[Mireille] I don't think Chloe is creepy.
[JP Yuri] Especially during the pandemic
[Mireille] Chloe is selfish.
[Mireille] Her motivation is very human. If it wasn't, then she wouldn't be relatable.
[Mireille] The best villains are the ones who embody things we see in ourselves.
[Noirlax] yeah, I'm pretty selfish
[Mireille] They allow us to perceive our own weakness and susceptibility to villany.
[Mireille] And that's a part of the human condition.
[Mireille] Even a non-human villain like IT embodies the worst human villains; he has the pure rage and desire to kill that serial killers possess.
[Mireille] He takes the darkness in the human soul and embodies at as a sort of demonic spider.
[Mireille] But nothing about IT isn't found in the worst people.
[Noirlax] Haven't seen IT myself
[Mireille] So in spite of his otherworldly characteristics he's very human.
[Mireille] See the original.
[Mireille] Tim Curry is great.
[JP Yuri] Oh
[JP Yuri] Huh
[Kugayama] Isn't Tim Curry also in the Ghibli movie The Cat Returns?
[Mireille] Idk, but he has had a very varied career.
[Mireille] He's probably most famous for Rocky Horror.
[Mireille] But he's done a lot.
[JP Yuri] I remember him voicing Lotor in Voltron: The Third Dimension
[Mireille] I've only seen the original Voltrons.
[Kugayama]
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=21531[Mireille]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Curry[Mireille] Great actor, at home in film or on broadway.
[Noirlax] Yeah I think that's it from me for the Noir rewatch. That was enjoyable.
[JP Yuri] Yeah
[JP Yuri] I'm going to bed now
[JP Yuri] Good night
[Noirlax] Good night
[Noirlax] ***
[Kugayama]
https://twitter.com/ArthurMarsh2/status/901262196746866688
