Topic: Introspection - Episodes 17-19 with a little bit of 25-26 (Spoilers)

[AndreWeeb]

Hello hello! This is my first discussion post and a pretty personal one at that. These episodes have been lingering on my mind and have been making me lose sleep. These are particularly painful episodes to watch for me due to how close it hit, and my experience in my relationship to other people. This isn't the first time I have written about Noir, some of my earlier (unrevised) ramblings I'll link here as to make what I say make a bit more sense to whoever reads this:
Ramblings on Noir
Noir Ramblings 2
It should help clarify some of my thoughts that I may forget to elaborate on here.

Doubt

The end of episode 17 which serves as the catalyst for the conflict of episode 18. Rejection, as if Mireille was pointing the gun at me instead. With Chloe's words making her unsure, what is her place in this mess? Her relationship with Kirika has been twisted from the start, with the thread of fate that binds them both. In pain, she pushes Kirika away. Rejection, A sometimes debilitating fear of mine. Rejection may be a harsh word to use, but when this happens with someone close, it's hard not to use the word. No matter how strong a relationship is, doubt still arises. Doubt left on it's own leads to pain, which can eventually lead to an incident like this. What is my place? A question that needs to be answered in a relationship, all parties need to be assured of their place, their worth to one another. I have felt doubt in my place, at the same time, I have failed to reassure others of their place. Conflict arose.

The Darkness Within Me

"A wounded beast only sees its own pain."

As much as I fear rejection, I have been the one to dish it out the most. Doubt turned into pain, and due to pain, I lashed out. Mireille, uncomfortably mirrors how I act in this situation, being on both ends of the gun. It's perfectly understandable for her to act like that, it's perfectly understandable for me to have acted like that. But lashing out only causes more pain. Kirika, at a loss for what to do after Mireille rejected her, doubted herself even more. There aren't always two rails, after all. Watching this felt like looking at a mirror, my fears reflected, my actions reflected, as if it was staring into me. With this I realized that I needed to change.

"Noir, it is the name of two maidens."

The episode closes out with an assurance. Kirika, when given an option to save Mireille or gain more information about the manuscript, chose Mireille. Rushing to save her without a second thought. With this act, and the knowledge that Kirika passed up a lead just to save her, has reassured Mireille of her place in their relationship. Mireille returns Kirika's ID card, one of Kirika's links to her wish of a normal life. Kirika is reassured of her place in their relationship as well, and their conflict is resolved. Assurance, as I have come to realize, is one of the most important things to take care of when it comes to a relationship. Small acts can reassure, or plant doubt in someone's mind. Care must be put into minimizing and clearing out these doubts for any kind of relationship to last. I have been failing on this front, and I intend to correct that.

"Please, Mireille... Don't look at me like that"

With the conflict resolved, Episode 19 show a warmer side to the duo, Kirika's smile to Mireille and her returning the sentiment. It seems everything has returned "normal". With them confident and assured of their place in their relationship, they are free to enjoy their moments without doubt. This unfortunately did not last as Chloe once again causes another strain, as Mireille watches them fight off the Soldats. She sees them work seamlessly with one another, effortlessly dispatching their assailants. This causes doubt, Chloe has mentioned that after all, her and Kirika are "The True Noir" with no real place for her to be in. This is made worse when Chloe and Kirika recite the Noir passage in sync. "What is my place?" This strains her relationship with Kirika once again, unsure of how she fits in the mess once again. At the end, they are back to square one. Mireille not sure of her place due to the mess relating to "the True Noir", stares at Kirika, with eyes that pierce. Once again, it feels as if she's staring at me instead. Kirika is hurt by the stare, unsure of what their relationship has come to. Conflict and strain are inevitable in a relationship. There will always be one, and even after resolving it, there will be another. Relationships that don't break even with repeated hardship are strong ones, but at times one wishes to be free of this. "Is it always going to be like this? Are we always going to be like this?" these thoughts run through my mind. Even with my closest friends, one who I never wish to hurt, I hurt. How could I consider myself their close friend if I hurt them again and again? Whether intentional or unintentional, I still hurt them.

The True Noir.

Relationships strain, doubt builds and spills, pain is received and inflicted. "The True Noir" is revealed to be Kirika and Mireille. Have hurt each other, not to the same degree but have hurt each other all the same. But they have accepted each other fully, through all the pain, all the sins, they push past to accept each other. A relationship that has, and will continue to experience strain and hardship, but is undeniably unbreakable. Perhaps this is the ultimate goal of pursuing a relationship of any kind. Perhaps all the trials and hardships that will happen eventually being the cost for having someone who you can be fully confident that will never leave you, an unbreakable bond. Someone that even through all the doubts and hardships, will join you in seeking the light.

Afterword

AndreWeeb here coming at you with a forum post at 2:45am PHT, consumed by the swirling darkness of Canta per me II. The episodes are painful to watch, yet they are beautiful. They have tapped into emotions I have not even begun to learn to describe, as such, I apologize to the awkward wording that appears, I really do not know how to explain them. As this is very personal, I have been a bit vague on some parts and I apologize for that as well. I use the word relationship here as a general term and not in a purely romantic context. If you were confused on its use, this is why. This is dedicated to someone dear to me which is why these episodes were painful to watch as I have hurt them. I at least can be assured that I am slowly becoming a better person to them and that I am sure they'll join me in seeking the light also. Thank you for reading this and I would like to hear your thoughts on this rambling of mine.

-AndreWeeb (Canta per me II played vividly when I got depressed once. )

[kavi]

This is really interesting analysis, thanks for posting. You highlighted a few things I hadn't noticed before!

I haven't rewatched Noir in a while, but I think 17-18 is about the point in the series where Mireille's relationship with Kirika goes through a major transformation from being quite utilitarian (Mireille wants Kirika to get to the truth about her parents' death, Kirika wants Mireille to get to the truth about who she is) to being something very different. The relationship to this point was never, I think, very strong -- generally mediated through their work ("Daily Bread") punctuated by occasional breadcrumbs into the past with largely impersonal information.

There are "bonding" moments that happen occasionally, such as where Mireille saves Kirika's life, but in the end, it's good to know that those are fragile -- in the narrative arc of the series, we understand by the end that Kirika and Mireille are not (fundamentally) two cool assassins having a good time a la Mr. and Mrs. Smith, but rather, childhood enemies that, through managing their mutual (and ultimately shared) trauma, eventually become lovers/friends.

I would posit, therefore, that Mireille and Kirika's mutual rejection is primarily contingent on the fact that their previous relationship, (which we've expected, to this point, to end with Mireille killing Kirika as she promised back in Episode 1), is fundamentally over and has to end for them to build a new relationship based on truth and mutual trust. This is quite difficult for both of them, and functionally impossible for much of the series; for Mireille because she's allergic to relationships after several years as a secretive operative acting alone and had everyone close to her die; for Kirika because she literally doesn't know who she is (probably due to repression).

[AndreWeeb]

Hi!! Apologies for the late reply and thank you for taking the time to read and respond! I'm grateful for it!

I mostly gleamed what I mentioned from whatever strong emotions I felt when watching then put the pieces together. I didn't really factor in how their relationship was utilitarian (mostly because I kinda forgot about it when I got to this point). It's a bit embarassing to miss that but it does make me wonder how many of the bonding moments that I remember them having were "genuine" (in the sense of purely just caring about each other) or more so influenced by the need to dig into their past, when it comes to Mireille at least because I still don't think I fully understand her.

I would posit, therefore, that Mireille and Kirika's mutual rejection is primarily contingent on the fact that their previous relationship, (which we've expected, to this point, to end with Mireille killing Kirika as she promised back in Episode 1), is fundamentally over and has to end for them to build a new relationship based on truth and mutual trust.

I've been thinking about this for a while and it's enlightening seeing it worded like this as I haven't really thought about relationships "ending" for another to begin. I mostly thought about relationships progressing through stages instead of "ending", I haven't really fully gotten this either so I apologize on how confusing to read this might be, but I'll be thinking about this for a bit more.

Once again apologies for the late reply and thank you so much for your response!!

[kavi]

No need to apologize, I typically only check the forums like once a month so I may be late in replying as well. Pulsen has nicknamed me "Nakhl" for my random and late appearances XD

Whether the early relationship "progresses" or "ends" may be a matter of semantics / perspective. I just meant that it's a very different relationship, or at least a very different kind of relationship, that we find M&K in at Episode 26 vs Episode 13. "Darkness within Me" is, imho, the pivot here, where M&K start driving one another apart, seemingly inexorably until about ep. 23.

I think some of the bonding is genuine, but Mireille is a fundamentally insecure person with psychopathic tendencies, and Kirika has no idea who she is, so its depth is limited by the former's lack of willingness to connect and the latter's (understandable) lack of self-awareness.

There's an interesting point in one of the earlier episodes where they've been through an intense sidequest and Mireille, towards or at the very end of the episode, says "I'm going to kill you later, don't forget that", almost out of nowhere. Kirika doesn't seem to bothered about this but it feels like an interesting defensive reflex on Mireille's part, almost as if saying to herself "this isn't going to last, I can't get too attached".

[AndreWeeb]

Apologies once again, 'twas a hectic week. It has been on the back of my mind how Mireille kinda acted like how I imagined I would have acted back then when I had crazy defense mechanism so maybe I should contemplate it when I get a breather. I suppose the reason Mireille keeps calling Kirika's work vulgar is just to distance herself from her? It always bothered me when she said as I do not fucking know what she's on about. If it's this then it'd make a bit more sense to me.

Apologies if this is underwhelming considering how long I took, though I do now know why that nick name at least lol, thank you once again!

[noirlax]

I'm glad someone has put up a new thread on Noir, so no need to apologize. I feel I need to organize my thoughts better since a lot has gone on in this thread already but I'm rusty on thoughtful long posts.

Music/Scenes:

Firstly on character themes, I feel you can categorize character themes the way you put in your document but for me personally the only one that I feel is 100% character theme is Chloe.

 There are a few that are close like Lullaby for Altena and Himitsu/Secret Game for Chloe as well. Canta Per Me is geared towards Kirika but I feel that is a more general song of intense emotion and/or tragedy. Corsican Corridor suits Mireille but for me I feel that only represents part of her, like her past and when she opens up. I agree Salva Nos isn't anyone's song, more Noir's 'combat' track while the piano version of Melodie (such a beautiful track I wish it was on the OST) and anything with Melodie leans strongly towards Mireille. Romance leans towards Mireille too in my opinion. 

On scenes, I think Noir is great with shot compositions (and transitions) and matching animation with music/sound and I've learned a lot from that myself and probably reflected in my own work.


Relationships

"As much as I fear rejection, I have been the one to dish it out the most. " - That feels very Mireille.

Mireille and Kirika are in essence wounded people for me with a cold exterior but longing for real connection, self-acceptance, trust and love. In the world of assassins and possible betrayal, those are difficult things to obtain. When you add the inner doubt that anyone you love can survive with you and the hatred and resentment of the world has dished out on you (as well as the sins you have committed), that makes it even more difficult. This resilience through the Mireille/Kirika relationship, these 'inner trials' are loved by many fans. This relationship started by more utilitarian concerns (as kavi said), then strained by Mireille's cold bloodedness and 'rejective' personality and also in part by Kirika's fatalism forged a beautiful relationship. Indeed these trials and connections make many of us feel "The True Noir" is what happens in their hearts than what happens on the 'battlefield' against Soldats and assassins even though they are intertwined with a black thread (just me trying to poetic again lol).