[MartAnimE] I'm ready for 25 btw ^^
[forlornhope] ready as well
[Noirlax] sorry I mean the Phantom interview link
[Noirlax] ready
[AlexShadow] well excuuuse me princess
[AlexShadow] yeah that's where it's from
[MartAnimE] lol we can discuss more if you want XD
[MartAnimE] I'm ok with that too
[Noirlax] I'm ready
[AlexShadow] no I'm kidding I'm getting ready too
[MartAnimE] but Riki might have to got to lunch soon
[Noirlax] It's up to you guys XD
[AlexShadow] oh shoot, brb actually
[MartAnimE] no problem
[Noirlax] np we can take our time
[Noirlax] I won't fall askeep
[Noirlax] yeah where does Alex find the interview for Phantom, cool thing to have
[MartAnimE] I was thinking, for the reputation Urobochi gets, he actually came up with at least two positive endings in Phantom
[Noirlax] but did he put them in there or was that the producer? :smile:
[MartAnimE] I think he might put the characters through hell, sure, but it's not entirely void of hope
[MartAnimE] I'm talking about the game XD
[Noirlax] yeah I mean the game
[Noirlax] Wouldn't a VN producer say oh no we must have a good ending for the fanboys :smile:
[MartAnimE] lol I wonder
[MartAnimE] fanboys might like the Claudia ending better anyways XD
[Noirlax] lolol
[MartAnimE] that's the one where the player gets laid the most :V
[Noirlax] :smile:
[MartAnimE] I obviously didn't play it for the dating sim appeal, but I can see it's still there XD
[Noirlax] Now I doubt you Marta XD
[MartAnimE] I'll tell you exactly how I found out about Phantom!
[Noirlax] lolol
[MartAnimE] I saw an ad for the game in an anime magazine, that featured Ein and Drei
[MartAnimE] and mentioned something about assassins
[MartAnimE] and my immediate thoughts were "zomg this looks a lot like noir" :open_mouth:
[Noirlax] :open_mouth:
[MartAnimE] imagine my surprise when I start the game and you play as a guy XD
[Noirlax] The horror!
[MartAnimE] still, no regrets XD
[Noirlax] I wish my introductions to anime/games was half as exciting as that :stuck_out_tongue:
[MartAnimE] I like the superficial similarities in Phantom, because it has enough differences to be its own story
[Noirlax] It clearly is its own story, it's gritty and fatalistic and isn't so 'abstract'
[MartAnimE] I'd say Noir is more artsy, than abstract
[Noirlax] Yeah it's hard to describe what I mean
[Noirlax] I don't mean abstract concepts per se that's more Avenger/Madlax I dare say
[MartAnimE] it has a lot of symbolism
[MartAnimE] but it's rarely visually abstract
[Noirlax] I'm referring to those rather vague hard to describe feelings due to Noir's pace and pausing
[AlexShadow] you know at first I thought Layla in Avenger was a boy
[MartAnimE] Noir is definitely grounded in a real world setting
[AlexShadow] well just from the cover before sitting and watching it
[MartAnimE] I like that androgynous aspect of Layla actually
[Noirlax] Layla does have a bit of bishieness.
[AlexShadow] before there was Meine Liebe there was Layla
[Noirlax] lol
[MartAnimE] don't get me started on Avenger or we'll never finish this rewatch XD
[Noirlax] lolol
[MartAnimE] I'm ready for 25 now
[Noirlax] let me check if I have the time to watch this sorry
[MartAnimE] okies no problem
[MartAnimE] wouldn't want you to starve :hamburger:
[AlexShadow]
https://i.imgur.com/fLsRpiw.png check the time for us Mio
[Noirlax] sorry I won't have the time for ep 25
[Noirlax] until after lunch
[MartAnimE] okies go ahead
[MartAnimE] we'll talk about Avenger XD
[Noirlax] I'm so glad this Mio doesn't have to meet Drei XD
[MartAnimE] lol that Mio might not take it so well XD
[Noirlax] I'm sure if Drei tries to shoot Yui her clumsiness will mean all the shots miss
[MartAnimE] poor K-ON babies, they should never have to see a gun in person if I had any saying in it :gun:
[MartAnimE] some shows would be pretty weird to crossover XD
[Noirlax] I'm sure it makes a hilarious fanfiction
[AlexShadow] K-ON Babies we make our dreams come true
[MartAnimE] if it's humour yeah, if you try to keep both shows in character it would be messed up
[Noirlax] Oh yeah before I think the word I wanted instead of abstract is ambigious
[Noirlax] Ah yeah I'm not that sadistic
[MartAnimE] ah yeah, that makes sense
[Noirlax] K-ON Babies, they should make a chibi kindergarten version
[Noirlax] It be so cute :heart_eyes:
[MartAnimE] I think they did actually
[MartAnimE]
https://myanimelist.net/anime/7017/K-On__Ura-On[MartAnimE] they're not babies, but they're chibis
[Noirlax] aww cute
[MartAnimE] these are little short skits included in the DVDs
[Noirlax] Yeah I've got to eat now, bbl. Thanks for waiting ^^
[MartAnimE] enjoy your meal, Riki :smile:
[AlexShadow]
https://i.imgur.com/XS09zH8.jpg[MartAnimE] lol
[MartAnimE] castanets :V
[MartAnimE] and baby Mugi still has giant eyebrows XD
[AlexShadow] those eyebrows
[MartAnimE] sorry to go back to Avenger, but could you tell me again why it didn't resonate with you so much?
[AlexShadow] it's always been hard to explain what about the show doesn't really work with me
[MartAnimE] I thought as someone who also studied abstract film in school you'd appreciate it more
[MartAnimE] and I definitely can see why it wouldn't have a mainstream appeal
[MartAnimE] I've heard people complain that it's too frustratingly quiet, that they really long for more dialogue at times
[MartAnimE] was this an issue for you?
[AlexShadow] maybe it was, then again I like SIGN which is very similar
[AlexShadow] I guess I feel like they're trying to world build but not doing it well
[MartAnimE] I think I recall SIGN was very dialogue heavy actually
[MartAnimE] that's a really interesting perspective, cuz I thought the world building in Avenger was great
[AlexShadow] think it's also a little weird to relegating Layla's motivations as a big reveal
[MartAnimE] it just fascinated me
[MartAnimE] it really inspired me to write a very in depth wiki article on our BTF wiki
[MartAnimE] which is now, sadly, inaccessible
[AlexShadow] aww bummer
[MartAnimE] I think it's still saved somewhere
[MartAnimE] but I don't know how to access it
[AlexShadow] not in a word document or anything? Tucked away on a HDD somewhere?
[MartAnimE] yeah sadly no, I know someone at the forum has links to access it somewhere
[MartAnimE] but everything I wrote was in the wiki
[AlexShadow] what about Bill think he might be able to find it?
[MartAnimE] oh for sure he must know
[MartAnimE] I should poke him about it sometime actually XD
[MartAnimE] I just feel he's been really busy and removed from fandom for a while, but I do contact him about forum issues from time to time ^^
[MartAnimE] anyways, the appeal in Avenger, for me, has always been this mix of genres
[MartAnimE] it's a space opera, sci-fi, martial arts drama
[MartAnimE] and the characters and the direction and the music are so very Bee-Trainy
[MartAnimE] I definitely consider it one of the stepping stones that defined Bee Train as a studio
[MartAnimE] along with Noir and .hack//SIGN
[MartAnimE] and it's probably the one show where I feel they really took the most advantage of minimalistic language
[MartAnimE] conciliating budget with artistic vision
[AlexShadow] mmm well said
[MartAnimE] hard to do that right, it can easily turn into Mars of Destruction :V
[AlexShadow] yeah and we don't want that
[MartAnimE] we don't need more of that XD
[MartAnimE] for sure
[MartAnimE] funny both shows involve Mars :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
[AlexShadow] :earth_americas:
[AlexShadow] there's no Mars that's the best I can do
[MartAnimE] that world is looking very American
[AlexShadow] :earth_africa:
[AlexShadow] :earth_asia:
[MartAnimE] :earth_americas: :earth_africa: :earth_asia:
[MartAnimE] yeah there are three different ones
[MartAnimE] that's nice
[MartAnimE] back on Phantom, so this log doesn't become too off topic, do you all have a favorite character in Phantom?
[AlexShadow] I don't think so, at least I never connected with them in that way
[AlexShadow] but at least I liked them
[AlexShadow] even if they have to do terrible things
[MartAnimE] yeah I think I'm on the same boat
[MartAnimE] don't feel for any individual character strongly enough to put them on a favorite characters list, but I definitely support Reiji/Eren
[AlexShadow] you'd ship em?
[MartAnimE] I ship them and, if I had to pick, they are the characters I'm most concerned about
[AlexShadow] we do follow their entire journey even when Cal enters the picture
[MartAnimE] and I feel they really do a lot for each other and would have lost themselves long ago if they were alone
[MartAnimE] they keep each other human
[MartAnimE] especially in Eren's case
[MartAnimE] she was but a shell of a person until Reiji came into her life
[MartAnimE] he gave her back her humanity
[AlexShadow] yeah compelling character dynamics
[AlexShadow] and it exists in a GOOD ANIME
[MartAnimE] kinda interesting to consider this: Ein played a huge role in turning Reiji into Zwei, training him to become an assassin
[AlexShadow] and he's the one to pull her back from that
[MartAnimE] but in return: Reiji literally gave Ein a human name, Eren
[AlexShadow] he's the one who restores her humanity
[MartAnimE] and helped her regain her humanity
[MartAnimE] they just complete each other
[Noirlax] back
[MartAnimE] they can never go back to being Phantom or being completely human
[MartAnimE] but they are stuck somewhere in the middle together
[MartAnimE] wb Riki
[AlexShadow] wb
[MartAnimE] how was lunch?
[Noirlax] good just trying to catch up on what you guys were talking about :v
[MartAnimE] take your time ^^
[Noirlax] Lunch was good,
[Noirlax] Had some premade things baked in an oven and some drink
[Noirlax] I liked Cal in her arc before Drei
[Noirlax] Reiji/Eren have a good dynamic but Eren is no Kirika-chan :smile:
[MartAnimE] hard to dislike Cal as a child
[MartAnimE] as hard as her life had been she still kept a certain innocence about her
[Noirlax] yeah
[Noirlax] Reiji I like
[MartAnimE] and I just can't help but think of the parallels with Leon The Professional XD
[Noirlax] I should watch that movie
[MartAnimE] that being one of my favorite live action movies :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
[AlexShadow] when Cal was talking about her horrible life experiences to Mio I imagine she was largely talking about her life even before her time with Inferno and before Reiji (well minus "I had one nice dress")
[MartAnimE] about Eren not being Kirika, I didn't even go there because, as I said earlier, the similarities with Noir are very superficial, and it's just better to consider each work separately
[AlexShadow] which is probably why becomes so dependent on Reiji it destroys her when he leaves
[Noirlax] yeah I guess she had some bitterness in her at the time but it never shows during that arc
[MartAnimE] yeah it's true Cal had a hard childhood, but she didn't have bitterness until Reiji left her
[Noirlax] Well I guess due to the similarities I can't help but compare the characters. I think Eren is a little cold and street-smart so she doesn't have that innocence about her so I always never as attached to her as a character.
[MartAnimE] and I think this one thing wasn't as evident in the anime, but Cal was kinda in love with Reiji just before he left
[Noirlax] Dating sim logic :open_mouth:
[Noirlax] but really I'm sure he's like the best person in her life.
[MartAnimE] so she felt abandoned not just by a close friend or guardian, but by a lover, which I read has a stronger psychologically impact than anything else
[Noirlax] Until he 'abandoned' her
[MartAnimE] I read that sort of thing messes with a person's self identity the most
[MartAnimE] which we can definitely say happened with Cal
[Noirlax] Wouldn't be surprised, a lot of assassinations involve lovers or ex-lovers
[MartAnimE] brb a sec and then I'll be ready for 25, if you all are :wolf:
[Noirlax]
https://nypost.com/2017/07/21/over-half-of-female-murder-victims-are-killed-by-ex-lovers/[Noirlax] here we go, I guess in Cal's case she can hire herself :stuck_out_tongue:
[Noirlax] but gender roles reversed :stuck_out_tongue:
[MartAnimE] ok this took a grim turn ^^;
[AlexShadow] yeah ready
[MartAnimE] ready too
[Noirlax] ready
[Noirlax] we're in the mood now :p
[Noirlax] There's going to be death in the next two eps :v
[MartAnimE] even Phantom's gritty realism can't compete with real life :V
[forlornhope] ready
