[MartAnimE] always have a good time rewatching with you guys, but the show didn't feel better than I remembered
[MartAnimE] 6 out of 10 isn't a bad rating :smile:
[MartAnimE] by MAL's standards 5 is average, 6 is Fine (above average)
[Noirlax] I feel like this actually is a Bee Train anime when I look at it again. There's that touch.
[ShadowBlazer3000] i like it's brisk pace but it's not ridiculously fast either
[Noirlax] It's hard for me to compare but I feel it's a good amount of development for the show's length.
[Noirlax] The other problem is I haven't watched many shows I consider mediocre at 12 eps for comparison :smile:
[ShadowBlazer3000] I've seen shows with a first episode that feels like it's on fast forward
[Noirlax] which ones?
[ShadowBlazer3000] like the remake of Soul Hunter
[MartAnimE] I actually watched the old Soul Hunter
[MartAnimE] but it was also confusing
[Noirlax] hmm random thought I guess if MP was compared to shounen it be more developed and intimate imo.
[MartAnimE] hmm I suppose, feels like a different genre
[Noirlax] yeah I don't know what genre this is exactly
[ShadowBlazer3000] fundamentally they're both action/adventure but the execution is better with Murder Princess
[MartAnimE] action
[Noirlax] I guess action is the main one yeah
[MartAnimE] shounen also focus a lot on male friendship/rivalry and getting stronger or better at a sport :smile:
[ShadowBlazer3000] even then I think Murder Princess is a Seinen manga
[MartAnimE] and feel like the fights are more hand to hand in shounen
[MartAnimE] seinen manga, yeah maybe
[Noirlax] yes they are, yeah MP is probably more seinen
[Noirlax] Did someone say friendship
https://imgur.com/YZQx4Cf[ShadowBlazer3000] lol
[MartAnimE] lol
[ShadowBlazer3000]
https://youtu.be/dGAzWuaFIrg[MartAnimE] anyways, it's a bit of a shame I couldn't get more invested in Murder Princess, I feel like the action overshadows the small quiet moments where the characters connect
[Mireille] Needed more to be really great.
[Mireille] But I still like it a lot.
[Noirlax] There was plenty of friendship between Alita and Milano but yeah those moments are great.
[Noirlax] I felt ep 4 and 5 had some good ones
[Mireille] It has a good story concept, and good characters.
[MartAnimE] I think it's also in that awkward spot for me where it's not as intense as a movie, but not long enough for me to form a long time attachment to the characters
[Noirlax] I feel its developed better than some mainstream anime somehow.
[MartAnimE] perhaps, but I'm not comparing to anything in particular :smile:
[Noirlax] yeah the number of eps is a bit awkward
[MartAnimE] I feel like the ova format works better as an inbetween tv series
[MartAnimE] like a small extra story featuring characters the audience is already attached with
[ShadowBlazer3000] eh i don't like that
[Noirlax] I feel a lot of anime don't have quiet moments like that at all anyway so for 6 eps I'm happy with what I got.
[ShadowBlazer3000] i think it's kind of pointless
[MartAnimE] it was rather common in the 90s
[MartAnimE] but it's kinda dated now
[ShadowBlazer3000] i mentioned last time most OVAs now are just little extra stories tacked on to a show
[ShadowBlazer3000] and I just have to ask what the point is (besides to sell extra Blurays)
[ShadowBlazer3000] they run the same length, have the same OP/ED, follow the same characters
[MartAnimE] well, originally, it meant the ova would have higher production values than a tv episode, but less than say a movie
[ShadowBlazer3000] it feels like an episode that just belongs anywhere in a series
[MartAnimE] and because it was direct to video they could get away with stuff that might not be allowed on tv
[ShadowBlazer3000] yeah the eiichi shows will do that
[MartAnimE] more fanservice, violence etc
[Noirlax] yeah
[ShadowBlazer3000] with a bit more hardcore nudity but even your run of the mill slice of life shows do it too
[Noirlax] guess there's less censorship these days?
[MartAnimE] feels like that
[ShadowBlazer3000] no i think it's about the same if not more egregious but my complaint is more about the shows that really have no purpose to make OVA episodes
[ShadowBlazer3000] it's one thing to do it because you can go hardcore but it just seems redundant to make them when that's not the point
[Noirlax] I can see your point
[ShadowBlazer3000] that's probably why I'm more forgiving of MP because at least it's a straight adaptation not just a missing chapter
[MartAnimE] yeah fair enough
[Mireille] I seem to recall in the old days a lot of OVA were more like trials for a potential series.
[Noirlax] I'm partly forgiving cause of the length but I think it's mainly cause I felt invested in Alita and Milano.
[ShadowBlazer3000] yeah I think a lot were backdoor pilots
[Mireille] So they really came off like an into to the characters, but felt really incomplete.
[ShadowBlazer3000] Animation Runner Kuromi comes to mind as being a proto Shirobako
[Mireille] When I converted my collection from VHS to DVD, I didn't bother replacing those.
[Mireille] Now Shirobako we definitely need more of.
[Mireille] A lot more.
[Noirlax] yeah that be nice
[MartAnimE] we're getting more
[ShadowBlazer3000] yeah we got a movie at least
[Mireille] Yeah, I read that.
[Noirlax] I like another Bee Train style anime even though Bee Train doesn't exist anymore :smile:
[ShadowBlazer3000] i don't know there'll ever be an anime like a Bee Train anime
[MartAnimE] I didn't mean to sound harsh on Murder Princess, I enjoyed rewatching it with you guys
[Noirlax] It's ok it just didn't hook you.
[Mireille] Hey, no animals were killed, so it can still get the Parta Seal of Approval.
[Mireille] :feet:
[ShadowBlazer3000] i mean i love their introspective shows but I think MP was a nice way for them to stretch their legs a little, try a little something different
[MartAnimE] there's shows I enjoy more, especially by Bee Train, but it's not by far the worst I've seen
[MartAnimE] and I've watched a lot of anime
[MartAnimE] perhaps too much anime :no_mouth:
[Noirlax] I felt MP isn't so different from the introspective shows in some ways, there's still that personal relationship. Sure the action and pace was faster and some of the staging seemed familiar.
[MartAnimE] the worst Bee Train anime I've seen was .hack//Legend of the Twilight :zipper_mouth:
[Noirlax] I haven't seen that
[Noirlax] now I want to watch it :smile:
[MartAnimE] go ahead :smile:
[MartAnimE] any more thoughts on Murder Princess?
[ShadowBlazer3000] i don't know about the worst but it's far from great
[ShadowBlazer3000] I mean Arc I thought was kind of boring, Meadabots is so very much a product of its time
[ShadowBlazer3000] and nothing more about MP on my end
[Noirlax] Final word Murder Princess, one of the above average Bee Train series. I appreciated what it packed in more this time and also the relationship between Alita/Milano. Shame it was a little too short to fulfill it's full potential.
[MartAnimE] I must say the premise has a really good hook
[MartAnimE] I was mostly invested in the body switch predicament, the Alita/Milano relationship, and the socio-political struggles of running a kingdom
[MartAnimE] the action scenes and end of days cult villain didn't do much for me
[Noirlax] Had to say I wasn't really invested in the body switch I thought it was a good plot hook but more intrigued by the tech and political struggles.
[ShadowBlazer3000] I've seen plenty of body switching hilarity ensues stories so it's usually a story I can do without
[MartAnimE] I guess I haven't seen many stories like that in anime
[Noirlax] The end of days wasn't so bad in the idea just the execution for me.
[ShadowBlazer3000] i can't say I've seen a lot in anime but it was a common enough trope in the 90s
[ShadowBlazer3000] i feel like a lot of sitcoms or family films did it or they did the Parent Trap plot
[MartAnimE] I do remember that movie, freaky friday :smile:
[MartAnimE] not this one :friday_monday:
[Noirlax] lol
[ShadowBlazer3000] there was one that played on TV every weekend when I was a kid, it was about two sisters that switch bodies
[MartAnimE] oh I think I saw that one too
[ShadowBlazer3000] also Freaky Friday got played a lot too on TV
[MartAnimE] I think I recall a bunch of live action examples
[MartAnimE] just not anime ones
[MartAnimE] but something unique about Murder Princess was there was the yuri aspect
[MartAnimE] and I feel in MP there should have been at least one line of dialogue or inner thought or at least one awkward moment where they realize their emotionally attraction to each other, which would inevitably have been made awkward by them inhabiting each other's body
[Noirlax] I guess they could have made that for laughs but they went more for the social/political mismatch angle
[Mireille] That's a complex question.
[Mireille] Some people love the person and the body the person is in doesn't matter.
[Mireille] And some people only feel romantic love for a person in a certain type of body.
[Noirlax] maybe just physical love for some :smile:
[Mireille] I'm not suggesting either way is better, but each are a different way of approaching life.
[MartAnimE] I can relate to that Mireille, but when it's your own body that is an exceptional situation :smile:
[Mireille] Is it your own body if you are no longer in it?
[MartAnimE] good point
[Mireille] I mean in the religious sense the body is just a shell that the soul inhabits.
[Mireille] The person is the soul.
[Noirlax] that's if you have that philosophical POV
[ShadowBlazer3000] i really need to go get in the shower now
[Mireille] Night Alex.
[Noirlax] The spider ninja awaits you
[MartAnimE] enjoy shower Alex :shower:
[MartAnimE] Bai Bai :dog:
[Noirlax] channel that inner Murder Princess!
[MartAnimE] ***
[Noirlax] bai bai :dog:
[Noirlax] ***
[Mireille] Sorry my musing are based on an article I read about a woman whose husband transitioned.
[Mireille] And she had to decide if she loved the person or if she loved the man.
[ShadowBlazer3000] woah i thought about that same story!
[Mireille] Ultimately she decided she loved the person and the body didn't matter.
[Noirlax] That's fine, I'm just pointing out some philosophies don't believe in the soul and all that
[Mireille] It's an interesting perspective on the nature of love.
[Mireille] Yeah, but in the case of MP, you clearly have a soul that embodies all the thoughts, feelings, and memories of the person.
[MartAnimE] that's valid James, I think I'm looking at it from a point of view of existential horror, to be face to face with with someone who could be your Doppelgänger would be a shock to most, not to mention developing any sort of relationship with them
[MartAnimE] it would definitely take some getting used to
[Mireille] When Alita and Falis switch, everything that they are goes with them except the flesh.
[MartAnimE] unless you were born twins
[Mireille] Which sounds like the concept of a soul to me.
[Mireille] I agree that would be true for most of us.
[Mireille] But I think as Milano she was completely embracing a new identity
[Noirlax] the thoughts/feelings and memories seem to have switched agree with that
[MartAnimE] yeah Milano embraced it faster than Alita
[Mireille] And Falis was so much a warrior she took it completely in stride.
[Mireille] At the very start she was clearly all set to just walk away in her new body and leave the old one behind as if it didn't matter.
[Noirlax] In a way Milano had it easier, easier to go from a princess to high ranking handmaiden than a bounty hunter to a princess.
[Mireille] She was more concerned about getting her sword back than her flesh back.
[Noirlax] Alita probably found out her calling is her sword :smile:
[Noirlax] Musashi in a corset jk :smile:
[MartAnimE] I think I'm not a particularly spiritual person, so maybe that makes it harder for me to relate to this concept
[MartAnimE] I think I couldn't let go of my body that easily
[Mireille] You don't have to be spiritual to understand the concept of soul.
[MartAnimE] I would feel responsible for it to a degree :sweat_smile:
[Noirlax] I believe Milano was so focused on survival of the kingdom she kinda ignored it and Alita doesn't seem to be the dwelling type
[Mireille] Even if you aren't spiritual at all, the concept of soul still embodies the mental / emotional aspects of our being.
[Mireille] Religion just adds in things like immortality, and salvation or damnation.
[MartAnimE] yeah I mean, maybe I have a harder time relating to the characters
[MartAnimE] but that's fine
[Mireille] Personally I always thought heaven sounded dull, I'd rather go to Valhalla and carouse with the Valkyrie. XD
[MartAnimE] I can enjoy a story or characters even if I don't relate 100%
[MartAnimE] lol James
[Noirlax] basically you mean they coped with the body switch too easily for you to relate?
[MartAnimE] yeah, I guess that's it Riki
[ElenoreFanGirl] I rather go to a heaven that treated transpeople super well
[MartAnimE] though there's probably time skips, so the whole story can actually take place over the course of months
[MartAnimE] even if it feels like it's just one week
[Noirlax] I guess it's kinda different for me cause my body is not something I'm particularly attached to
[Mireille] Kari, I'm not sure the hellfire and damnation types are actually going to heaven.
[Noirlax] maybe that's why I play as girls in games all the time :smile:
[Mireille] I don't think they really understand the concept of a universe creator all that well.
[Noirlax] hellfire and damnation types....party poopers :smile:
[Mireille] I got this from a video game, so take it with a grain of salt: God is an artist, not someone who cares whether or not you brushed your teeth.
[Noirlax] You mean like that game Black and White?
[Mireille] That seems more in keeping with a being who could and would cause the big bang.
[Mireille] Never played that.
[Noirlax] Oh you play as God basically in that game.
[Mireille] I think Kari disappeared back into her game. XD
[ElenoreFanGirl] I'm still here
[Mireille] Oh, it says you are playing FFXIV
[ElenoreFanGirl] I'm in FFXIV in my Free Company house crafting materials so nothing super stressful. So I can jump in and out easy
[Mireille] Ah I see.
[MartAnimE] are we done with Murder Princess?
[Mireille] Think so.
[Noirlax] Yeah I'm done now
That was a good discussion :smile:
[MartAnimE] yup, we can continue on elda taluta :smile:
[MartAnimE] ~ THE END ~
